1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,000 *33C3 preroll music* 2 00:00:12,500 --> 00:00:19,300 Welcome to this talk on, err, Funkwhale and, err, the importance of decentralized 3 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:26,700 podcasting. Erm, it's just something that, erm, I'm doing as, as just a little 4 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:33,600 'outreach' thing. Umm! *chuckles* So who am I? Err, my name is Ciarán Ainsworth; I 5 00:00:33,700 --> 00:00:40,500 am a, erm, member of the the Funkwhale Association, erm, who are the, erm, 6 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:46,600 arbiters of the Funkwhale Platform. We have been developing it, err, for a few 7 00:00:46,700 --> 00:00:53,700 years now. Err, I joined Funkwhale a couple of years ago as, err, primarily, a 8 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:58,500 documentation writer. So, I installed, err, Funkwhale, err, after looking for 9 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:04,500 some self-hosting tools, and I approached the project and said: "err, your 10 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:09,000 documentation isn't particularly great - err, would you mind if I, if I, helped 11 00:01:09,100 --> 00:01:13,600 rewrite it?" and from there on, I've kind of got more and more involved in 12 00:01:13,700 --> 00:01:19,500 different bits of the project. Err, so, I've been doing a lot of work with, erm, 13 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:26,300 Front-end Development, Documentation, err Community Management, and, err, my role 14 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,000 on the sort of Board is that I'm a member of the Steering Committee, which means 15 00:01:30,100 --> 00:01:36,100 that I am responsible for helping with development of Roadmaps, erm, and sort of 16 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,800 Research & Development into different features that we might want to add, err, 17 00:01:39,900 --> 00:01:46,400 at some other time. So, what is Funkwhale? First and foremost? Erm, as 18 00:01:46,500 --> 00:01:51,000 you can see there, very nice little, *chuckles* sort of interface design! Err, 19 00:01:51,100 --> 00:01:57,800 Funkwhale is essentially a music, an audio platform, erm, to put it very very 20 00:01:57,900 --> 00:02:07,000 basically. Erm, but more specifically, it is, erm, a Free and Open Source project. 21 00:02:07,100 --> 00:02:14,000 Erm, it's a self-hosted server software, with a, erm, front-end web application 22 00:02:14,100 --> 00:02:20,700 for playing music. And, err, the thing that kind of sets it apart is that it is 23 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:27,700 'federated'. So, it's built on the same, err, software as other federated, erm, 24 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:34,400 applications such as Mastodon, Pleroma, Pixelfed, PeerTube, Reel2Bits and all the 25 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:39,400 others. We all use the same, erm, software to interact with one another, 26 00:02:39,500 --> 00:02:45,000 err, something called the ActivityPub protocol, erm, and basically it just 27 00:02:45,100 --> 00:02:51,600 allows us to be a bit more interactive with, erm other Funkwhale servers and 28 00:02:51,700 --> 00:02:56,500 also other, erm, software in the Fediverse. And when Funkwhale started up, 29 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:01,800 it was primarily focussed around music; Erm, the name comes from the fact that 30 00:03:01,900 --> 00:03:08,500 the original developer of the software, Agate Berriot, wanted a free, self-hosted 31 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:14,200 version of Grooveshark, something that, erm, she could put music into and then 32 00:03:14,300 --> 00:03:20,700 create playlists and radios from. Erm, so that's kind of where the pedigree came 33 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:26,200 from, we come from that music background. Erm, but nowadays we're focussed on... 34 00:03:26,300 --> 00:03:31,100 many things. Music collections are still part of it, but we also have, err, audio 35 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:36,100 publication tooling, err, and content sharing as part of our, sort of, genetic 36 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:42,700 makeup. So, a little while ago, erm, we were looking at our Roadmap, so around 37 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:49,200 about, erm, September/October 2019, we started to look seriously at "where did 38 00:03:49,300 --> 00:03:55,800 we want to take the project?" At the time we had just moved away from having Agate 39 00:03:55,900 --> 00:04:01,200 as essentially the 'Benevolent Dictator for Life", and were looking at moving 40 00:04:01,300 --> 00:04:09,100 towards a more 'democratic' system of governance, where we would ask the, err, 41 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,800 users to provide us with insights and, erm, sort of guidance on what they would 42 00:04:13,900 --> 00:04:20,400 like to see in the platform. And, when we started, err, approaching them with 43 00:04:20,500 --> 00:04:27,200 options, one of the things we found was that podcasting was a very, very widely 44 00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:32,200 requested feature, erm - which was something I don't necessarily think we 45 00:04:32,300 --> 00:04:37,600 were expecting. But it was definitely something that people were very 46 00:04:37,700 --> 00:04:45,900 interested in. Err, at the time, the Fediverse in general lacked a, erm, 47 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:54,500 lacked a proper, sort of, erm, platform for things like podcasting. We had music, 48 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,800 we had, erm. Sorry, I'm just going to adjust my volume; somebody's saying it's 49 00:04:58,900 --> 00:05:06,800 a little bit low. Erm, we had, err music, we had video, we had, erm, things like 50 00:05:06,900 --> 00:05:11,500 microblogging, and we had image sharing, but we didn't have podcasting. So that 51 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:18,000 was something that people seemed to be quite interested in. So, when people came 52 00:05:18,100 --> 00:05:22,900 to us, erm, and sort of suggested that, that fitted in quite nicely with another 53 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,100 thing that we were looking to do in general, which was, erm, content 54 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:34,100 publication. So, we sort of looked at it as an opportunity to develop, erm, an 55 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,600 entire new structure, not just around podcasts but also around music 56 00:05:38,700 --> 00:05:43,900 publication, so that we were moving away from, erm, just hosting your CD 57 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:49,600 collection, erm, and maybe some bits and pieces that you had done yourself, to, 58 00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:54,400 erm, actually publishing, erm, content and putting it through to the Fediverse 59 00:05:54,500 --> 00:05:59,800 directly. So that was kind of, err, the background as to why we got into 60 00:05:59,900 --> 00:06:06,700 podcasting in general. Umm, very quickly, err, we saw that there were going to be 61 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:13,200 a lot of challenges with this particular bit of work; the biggest one really was, 62 00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:20,700 erm, we as a, as a collective, didn't really know all that much around, err, 63 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:28,300 podcasting. None of us were podcasters, erm, we listened to podcasts sometimes, 64 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:34,800 but not very often; I myself only listened to a few, erm, so we very soon, 65 00:06:34,900 --> 00:06:38,800 quickly realised that we were going to need to approach people who did this sort 66 00:06:38,900 --> 00:06:43,700 of thing all the time. We were going to need to ask people who knew about this 67 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,200 stuff, had sort of, err, experience working with lots of different bits and 68 00:06:47,300 --> 00:06:52,500 pieces, err, in the current climate, err, in order to build something that fit with 69 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,700 their expectations, and also addressed some of their frustrations that, you 70 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:01,100 know, anything that, anything that frustrated them. The other problem was, 71 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:06,800 as I mentioned before, we... are a music publication platform; or we were a music, 72 00:07:06,900 --> 00:07:13,300 err, sort of hosting platform, so - this podcasting and publication stuff was not 73 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:18,300 in our DNA. It required quite a lot of, erm, sort of 'architecting' on the 74 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:25,400 backend to, really, get something that would work for publication. Erm, we 75 00:07:25,500 --> 00:07:28,400 needed to kind of rethink a lot of things, because we'd been making 76 00:07:28,500 --> 00:07:34,600 assumptions about, audio, in general, erm, based on music collections, err, 77 00:07:34,700 --> 00:07:40,000 which of course is a very different thing to, to podcasting. Erm, the other thing 78 00:07:40,100 --> 00:07:44,000 we didn't really know or understand was "what should it look like from beginning 79 00:07:44,100 --> 00:07:51,200 to end, err, for a podcaster to publish something?" Erm, we kind of understood it 80 00:07:51,300 --> 00:07:55,700 for musicians, erm, it was a bit simpler. You know, you'd have albums, and you 81 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:00,400 have tracks that go in those albums, but we didn't really know all that much about 82 00:08:01,100 --> 00:08:09,100 podcasting. So, in order to get that information, we decided to form a 83 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:15,500 podcasting, err, 'Taskforce' as it were. And this taskforce basically consisted of 84 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:21,200 erm, members of the Funkwhale association, and, a group of people, from 85 00:08:21,300 --> 00:08:29,000 the, erm, Podcasting Subreddit, from the Fediverse, erm, people who make podcasts 86 00:08:29,100 --> 00:08:33,500 all the time. Erm, and we basically brought them all into a chatroom, and we 87 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:39,600 said: "OK, so if we're going to design this, what do we absolutely need to do, 88 00:08:39,700 --> 00:08:45,700 what do we need to hit? What do you want to see, and what would, erm, kind of 89 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:52,600 encourage you to come over to using our software, to publish your podcasts, if 90 00:08:52,700 --> 00:08:59,500 that's something you'd like to do?" Erm, and it was something, err, the other 91 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,100 thing we needed to work out was, erm, you know, we didn't really have an insight, 92 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,600 as people who didn't publish, into what the competition was doing. So, I say 'the 93 00:09:07,700 --> 00:09:12,500 competition' - *chuckles* - what other people who made this stuff were doing, so 94 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,000 we very much needed to get that information from a first-hand experience. 95 00:09:16,100 --> 00:09:22,600 erm, and sort of pull that in, to make sure that we were doing it correctly. And 96 00:09:22,700 --> 00:09:30,000 what we found, was, erm, basically: podcasts are hard. They're quite complex 97 00:09:30,100 --> 00:09:38,200 things, where, especially the, erm, particularly the complexity exists on the 98 00:09:38,300 --> 00:09:43,000 backend; it exists within the software, but the user should be really getting a 99 00:09:43,100 --> 00:09:50,100 very simple frontend to do things with. So, we found that basically, whereas with 100 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,800 music, erm, Funkwhale really didn't handle a lot of the more complex stuff 101 00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:58,900 like tagging, erm we let MusicBrainz handle that; if we were going to be 102 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:04,000 publishing, we needed to start actually taking on board that complexity, and sort 103 00:10:04,100 --> 00:10:08,200 of facilitating it in our publication layer, err, and podcasts of course 104 00:10:08,300 --> 00:10:12,900 offered, erm, a slightly different way of doing things because there was less 105 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:19,200 metadata to be included, erm, and it was less sort of catalogued than something 106 00:10:19,300 --> 00:10:24,400 like music. The other thing that was very very strongly put forward by the people 107 00:10:24,500 --> 00:10:29,100 who we talked to, was that, there are, there exist in the podcasting world, 108 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:36,300 standards. We have certain ways of doing things, and that has to be retained, no 109 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:46,200 matter which tool we use. So, for example, erm, we need to use RSS; we 110 00:10:46,300 --> 00:10:51,900 absolutely have to include an RSS feed; erm, images need to be correctly sized; 111 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:59,000 the RSS feed must be consumable by tools such as iTunes, erm, and, Apple Podcasts, 112 00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:02,700 which means we have to include certain fields that only exist for iTunes and 113 00:11:02,900 --> 00:11:08,700 Apple Podcasts. Erm, the other thing we kind of came to realise was that people 114 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:14,200 were gonna be using us as a podcast publication tool, but we also needed to 115 00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:20,400 act as the podcatcher. Because our, you know, our sort of, erm, current makeup at 116 00:11:20,500 --> 00:11:25,800 the time, was to be a music hosting tool but also an application which played 117 00:11:25,900 --> 00:11:30,900 music, we needed to give that same experience for podcasts. It needed to be 118 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:36,200 that people could publish content, but also take the content they already liked, 119 00:11:36,300 --> 00:11:43,900 and put it into Funkwhale. Erm, and then, the other, the last sort of big thing 120 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,300 that came from this was, the sudden realisation that, erm, if you're gonna 121 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:53,900 have two or more servers talking to each other, a lot more, umm, you're gonna need 122 00:11:54,000 --> 00:12:00,500 to really strengthen the, err, moderation tools that you have in place. Especially 123 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:05,700 when we're talking about user-generated content, the scope for abuse on that is 124 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,800 quite significant. So we needed to give users tools to be able to report things, 125 00:12:09,900 --> 00:12:13,400 we needed to give people tools to be able to block certain stuff, we needed to give 126 00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:17,300 administrators the ability to use things like 'enable lists', so that they could 127 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:24,000 prevent federation with certain, erm, other platforms, erm, and we needed to 128 00:12:24,100 --> 00:12:28,000 give them the ability to sort of ban users, take down channels, that sort of 129 00:12:28,100 --> 00:12:34,900 thing. Erm, so, this was a whole lot of architectural design, for, erm, podcasts, 130 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:40,100 which had, you know, it was, it really the podcasts that drove us to it. Umm, 131 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:47,800 and what we came out with was basically, erm, a hybrid of a traditional sort of 132 00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:56,300 podcast overview and a Fediverse channel. So in our world, we have podcasting 133 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:01,900 channels, err, and music channels. And, from what you can see in that sort of 134 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:07,000 screenshot, it gives some, sort of, basic information; you get your artwork, you 135 00:13:07,100 --> 00:13:11,400 get your episodes, we can split things up into series which was a big request that 136 00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:15,300 people had, was the ability to create, err, different series within the same 137 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:22,000 channel, erm, we have the ability to subscribe, erm, which I'll go onto in a 138 00:13:22,100 --> 00:13:26,200 second, and obviously if you're the channel owner, upload new content, make 139 00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:30,800 sure everything is working, err, as expected. Erm, the important bit here 140 00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:35,400 that we have is the, erm, information about, what's in that channel, so in, in 141 00:13:35,500 --> 00:13:39,400 this channel, this is mine; ignore it; it's terrible, erm, *chuckles* but, 142 00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:43,300 there's one episode, and it's been listened to 13 times. And this was 143 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,600 important information that we, we sort of worked out was needed in order for people 144 00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:53,200 to get a grip on like "how are people interacting with my content?" Umm, but 145 00:13:53,300 --> 00:13:58,100 taking that on board, we went ahead with the subscription capabilities, and as you 146 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,100 can see in the screenshot we have kind of three options in every case; the first is 147 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:07,000 if you already have a, err, Funkwhale account, you can subscribe using your 148 00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:10,800 Funkwhale account, to that channel, and it will be, it will be one of those, erm, 149 00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:14,400 things that appears in your feed when a new, err, episode is uploaded, you'll get 150 00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:19,300 notified that there's a new episode in the frontend. Erm, the other thing you 151 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:24,100 can do is subscribe via RSS. So going back to what we were saying earlier, erm, 152 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:29,400 we took a lot of, we put a lot of effort into making sure that our RSS feed, erm, 153 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:36,150 was compatible as, as much as possible, and that anybody could go onto a, sort of 154 00:14:36,250 --> 00:14:41,000 an open Funkwhale channel, and subscribe, without having to sign up to Funkwhale. 155 00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:46,500 'Cos, one of the things we very quickly realised was, we, we don't want people to 156 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,550 feel like they have to sign up, we, we want people to be able to enjoy the 157 00:14:50,650 --> 00:14:54,300 content no matter what, and that really should be up to them where they listen to 158 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:59,000 us, whether they listen to us on Funkwhale or some other podcatcher. And, 159 00:14:59,100 --> 00:15:04,700 the last one is, erm, subscription via the Fediverse, so, that enables users to 160 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:09,750 follow a channel in much the same way they would follow a Mastodon account, or 161 00:15:09,850 --> 00:15:14,900 a Pleroma account, or something similar. So, we're trying to hit all sort of boxes 162 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:22,400 there of how you can keep up with somebody's content. The other thing that, 163 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:27,000 err, I've been doing some work on recently is more front-end stuff, but 164 00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:32,500 erm, it's just making sure that we sort of point people towards, erm, adding new 165 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:37,200 content where possible, either by themselves, erm, creating new channels, 166 00:15:37,300 --> 00:15:44,700 or, subscribing to things, err, via RSS or via the Fediverse - so, really pushing 167 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:52,000 people towards that more, erm, it's really pushing people towards that more 168 00:15:52,100 --> 00:16:01,450 sort of, erm, you know, creation element. We want people to create. So, that's with 169 00:16:01,550 --> 00:16:06,300 the basics in place, erm, this was the development work we did over the past 170 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,300 sort of year or so; it's, it's been a wild ride - umm! *chuckles* There's been 171 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,800 a lot of content that's gone in, a lot of changes made, erm, there's still some 172 00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:20,700 changes to come; the most, the current release doesn't have some of the newer 173 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:26,900 tools that are around podcasting, such as dedicated podcast searching, umm, and 174 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:34,800 sort of wider accessibility of, erm, subscription tools. Erm, but, were not 175 00:16:34,900 --> 00:16:38,900 finished. There are still things, there are still items on the roadmap that we 176 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,800 would like to complete, and still items that are not currently on the roadmap 177 00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:49,100 which may need to be added in future, err, to really help us to get involved 178 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:54,600 with podcasting more, because what we found is this is a, err, this a market 179 00:16:54,700 --> 00:16:59,900 that we very much have enjoyed working in, and erm, it's one that actually has 180 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:05,700 proven quite popular with people, you know people see Funkwhale as a podcasting 181 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:11,100 platform now, *chuckles* umm, even if you know it was originally supposed to be 182 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:18,100 music, this is how it's kind of evolved. So, what do we have, erm, to kind of 183 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:25,100 consider next, to take Funkwhale to the next sort of level of, erm, you know, 184 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:31,200 being a proper, sort of, erm, alternative to what's currently out there. Umm, the 185 00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:37,700 first thing that strikes me as necessary is, umm, Funkwhale currently allows you 186 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:43,100 to import RSS feeds from external podcasts; it currently allows you to 187 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:48,300 follow, erm, podcasts on the Fediverse, on, erm, Funkwhale; and it currently 188 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:53,700 allows you to publish your own. But what we don't have at the moment is any way of 189 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:59,900 finding external podcasts. You still have to leave Funkwhale to go and find, err, 190 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:05,100 the RSS feed that you're looking for. Erm, you still have to, you know, go and 191 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:12,500 see where, erm, things are, go and find them on something like iTunes, or Fyyd, 192 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,800 or Spotify, and grab the RSS feed and bring it back to Funkwhale. Which of 193 00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:21,600 course from a User Experience point of view... ...is not great; umm, it's, it's 194 00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:26,300 basically meaning that Funkwhale is not yet the one-stop-shop for, err podcasts 195 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:31,100 that we might want it to be. Erm, so, one of the things that I would quite like to 196 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:35,800 see, you know, coming in future, is podcast discovery, for an external 197 00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:41,500 storefront; I have built myself a, erm, a kind of proof-of-concept of how we might 198 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:47,500 do this using the iTunes API, but there are different, err, things out there, 199 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:53,750 such as Fyyd and others, that we might want to consider looking at. Erm, the 200 00:18:53,850 --> 00:18:59,900 other thing is an improved, sort of, publication workflow. At the moment, err, 201 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:05,400 the publication workflow, err, it works, things go in, you get *chuckles* you get 202 00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:10,500 a podcast out of it; it generates an RSS feed for you. But, we have had, err, 203 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:16,600 people raise issues with it, erm, specifically around, erm, 'how do I edit 204 00:19:16,700 --> 00:19:22,600 metadata during that upload process?' Erm, the problem I think is because the 205 00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:27,000 way we designed the frontend, it was more of a, it was more in line with how we'd 206 00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:31,100 worked with music previously, which is to say, upload many files which have been 207 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:37,600 previously tagged, and just kind of let them be. Erm, whereas of course if you're 208 00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:43,200 doing an upload of, of podcasts you want to basically upload an episode, title it, 209 00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:48,150 tag it, put some artwork with it, give it a license, do all of that stuff, erm, and 210 00:19:48,250 --> 00:19:51,800 then move on to the next one. Or, if you know you're gonna be uploading multiple 211 00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:55,300 episodes of a series you might want to have a tool, say, that you can, you put 212 00:19:55,400 --> 00:20:00,150 them all in a series and say number them all automatically; erm, at the moment we 213 00:20:00,250 --> 00:20:03,600 don't have that. You, if you upload multiple things, a pencil icon appears 214 00:20:03,700 --> 00:20:06,400 next to each one, and you can click through and edit them all, but it's not 215 00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:10,400 very obvious how you do that. So that's been raised as something, erm, that needs 216 00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:13,950 to be addressed, and we've had some designs submitted for how we might go 217 00:20:14,050 --> 00:20:18,500 about doing that, which looks to be a lot better. Erm, the other one is something 218 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,400 I'm gonna come onto in the sort of, the second part of this, and that is, the 219 00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:27,700 introduction of links to donation services erm, at the moment, hosting 220 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:33,800 your podcast on Funkwhale is, is err, is great - erm, but it's the same as hosting 221 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:39,600 it anywhere else. Erm, what we need to, err, what we sort of want to be, sort of 222 00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:43,300 pushing people towards or sort of encouraging, is this idea of supporting, 223 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:48,900 err, people who create. Erm, and the best way to do that in our, in our eyes, is to 224 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,800 kind of, err, promote the idea of donation services and promote the idea of 225 00:20:53,900 --> 00:21:00,500 helping, to support the podcast that you like. Erm, we don't want to be a payment 226 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,500 handler, obviously, we wouldn't, *chuckles* but we do want to sort of help 227 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,200 make it a lot more visible when there is a service that you can actually put money 228 00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:10,200 towards. And the last one, it's been on the roadmap since channels were 229 00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:16,300 introduced, it's very, very complex, umm! *chuckles* As, as somebody who does not 230 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,400 work on the backend, I don't really have the tech, technological knowledge to go 231 00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:25,000 into it, but there is this idea of 'channel claiming', where, if somebody, 232 00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:29,500 err, uploads some music to a channel, and it's not their music, the person who's 233 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:35,200 music it is should be able to claim that channel and take control of it. Umm, as 234 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,800 you can imagine, that's a very very complex thing to do, particularly over 235 00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:44,100 federation, erm, because you have all of the different implications of the wider 236 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:50,000 Fediverse to take into account there. Erm, so, it's our biggest boom; it's also 237 00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:56,800 our biggest, erm, challenge, day-to-day is working with that federation. But, 238 00:21:56,900 --> 00:22:02,100 that moves on to, moves me on to my next point, which is all about sort of 239 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:08,900 decentralized podcasting. Erm, this may seem like a strange concept to people who 240 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:18,200 do podcasting, because, err, podcasts are decentralized by design, really. Erm, I 241 00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:22,500 didn't know a lot about podcasts, going into this. As I say, it was a very much a 242 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:28,000 learning experience, erm, but the more reading I did into podcasts as part of 243 00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:32,800 the research that we did for this, the more fascinated I became by how they work 244 00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:40,200 and how they're set up. And, the thing that struck me was, erm, podcasts have 245 00:22:40,300 --> 00:22:47,000 this, err, uni - they occupy this unique space of being very very, err, 246 00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:53,700 disruptive, low-tech, erm, you know, certainly audio podcasts, err but video 247 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:59,400 as well, disruptive, low-tech, standards-compliant ways of communicating 248 00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:06,800 a lot of information. So, podcasts can be hosted anywhere; err, as long as they 249 00:23:06,900 --> 00:23:13,200 generate a valid feed anybody can capture them into a podcatcher and play the files 250 00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:19,600 linked, using a relevant, erm, piece of software. Erm, that means that the, the 251 00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:24,500 potential listener-base is enormous, erm, much more so than, you know, anything 252 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:30,900 based on, erm, you know, a single platform, a centralized platform. And, 253 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,900 this was one of the reasons that, when we were designing, err, the podcast 254 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:41,400 publications tools, we were so emphatic about being a part of that existing 255 00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:46,200 infrastructure, making sure that we didn't try to, sort of lock people into 256 00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:51,700 our way of thinking, but instead follow what podcasting was already doing, 257 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,400 because it already seemed pretty great: we had, you know, things like RSS 258 00:23:55,500 --> 00:24:02,400 feeds, erm, we had sort of, good, erm, encodings being used like MP3, which 259 00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:07,400 could be so widely used it's, it's, it's kind of ubiquitous at this point! Erm, 260 00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:12,600 and, and, that's kind of a really important part of it. And the reason that 261 00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:16,900 this came to my attention was, during some of the conversations we were having 262 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:25,200 with podcasters, err, and specifically when we were looking at, erm, Funkwhale 263 00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:30,100 as a podcatcher, so something that consumes RSS feeds and plays them back, 264 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:35,200 erm, somebody had said something about a specific podcast, I think it was called, 265 00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:40,400 the, The Last Podcast on the Left. And they said, basically, "it's a shame, I 266 00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:44,600 won't be able to play this through Funkwhale because they are going 267 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:50,600 Spotify-exclusive, and so they're not producing an RSS feed anymore." And, 268 00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:58,000 *sighs*, this, worries me slightly; erm, it, it's, it's a concerning kind of, err, 269 00:24:58,100 --> 00:25:04,400 tr- trend away from what podcasts stand for, fr- from, from my understanding of 270 00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:09,400 what podcasts stand for. Erm, because when you go exclusive to something 271 00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:16,400 like Spotify, you have the introduction of DRM, and sort of, erm, you're sort of 272 00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:21,400 creating a walled around content, and certainly for content that used to be 273 00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:25,400 free, and- and open, so, you know, it used to follow the same rules as 274 00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:30,900 everything else, for it to suddenly go into a, a platform-specific, erm, 275 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:37,500 publication, is a big break. And there are a couple of reasons for this, but the 276 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:44,400 primary one is, let's say that, with podcasting the only limitation for a user 277 00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:49,200 is that they have a machine that has software that is capable of, of listening 278 00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:52,900 to that podcast; it's capable of reading the feed, and playing back the, the 279 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:58,800 audio. That's your limitation. If you put it onto, err, something like Spotify, you 280 00:25:58,900 --> 00:26:05,600 actually divide this into four - four different experiences. The first two are, 281 00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:13,900 users who live in a country, that have access to Spotify, erm, and those people 282 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:19,500 will have two experiences; one, they will either listen to an ad-supported, erm, 283 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:25,200 err- version of the show, and the second one is that they pay for a, erm, a 284 00:26:25,300 --> 00:26:32,000 subscription to the actual, erm, *typing* the actual podcast. Err, sorry, to the 285 00:26:32,300 --> 00:26:41,000 actual, erm, erm, platform. Then you have people who go into other, live in other 286 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:47,600 countries, erm, which don't have Spotify served up to them. And those people have 287 00:26:47,700 --> 00:26:53,300 more experiences; one is that they have to pay for a VPN, and, err, basically 288 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:59,000 access Spotify externally, using the ads, and then again, access externally using 289 00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:03,200 a subscription. And then there's that lost fifth one, which is, they don't have 290 00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:08,500 the money for any of this, so, they can't listen. So we've fractured the user-base 291 00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:16,400 by centralizing the, erm, by centralizing the content into a certain place, and the 292 00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:19,800 problem with something like Spotify is that, that point, when you've done that, 293 00:27:19,900 --> 00:27:24,000 and you've taken that, sort of, erm, you've taken that decentralized nature 294 00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:28,500 away, what you have left is not a podcast, it's essentially corporate 295 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:33,700 radio, and, like I say, for something that started off as a podcast, as 296 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,800 something that started off freely available, having it move in that way is, 297 00:27:38,900 --> 00:27:44,600 somewhat concerning. But, at the same time, we have to look at 'why does that 298 00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:51,200 happen?' And, and generally the answer is *chuckles*: podcasting is expensive. Erm, 299 00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:57,200 everything that takes up peoples' time, is expensive. And podcasting, from the 300 00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:02,800 little I have done of it, is very expensive. You've got to take the time to 301 00:28:02,900 --> 00:28:09,200 script, and record, and edit, and work with, erm, you know, all of that audio 302 00:28:09,300 --> 00:28:13,200 and video, you've got to find a place to publish it, you've got to do all of the, 303 00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:18,600 erm, you know, promotion around it, and if you are looking to make money off of 304 00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:23,200 it, you have to search around for, err, you know, sponsorships, and ad deals, and 305 00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:27,700 things like that. So when a company like Spotify comes along and says: "We'll take 306 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,700 all of that complexity off of your hands, and we'll give you a good portion of 307 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:36,900 money, erm, to pay your staff, and to, to make sure you can make a living", it's 308 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:42,400 very, very tempting. Erm, and you can kind of understand why it happens. And, 309 00:28:42,500 --> 00:28:47,000 one of the things that we kind of found was that, erm, the Free Software 310 00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:52,000 community, in general, is not always in, best equipped to deal with that kind of 311 00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:58,100 thing; we don't, erm, we can't make a counter-offer to that. Erm, our weapon 312 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:03,500 here and what we can do about this, is, as I've said before, kind of try as much 313 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:09,900 as possible to make it easy for people to make the decision to continue listening 314 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,500 outside of those platforms, make it easy for them to continue to support, their, 315 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:20,300 erm, their favourite podcast directly, erm which means, lowering the sort of 316 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:25,600 barrier to entry for, erm, payments, lowering the barrier of entry for 317 00:29:25,700 --> 00:29:30,900 sharing, for supporting, for, for getting things out there. Erm, but it's an 318 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:36,700 inherently, sort of, difficult thing to, to come up against, and something that, 319 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:41,100 you know, we *sighs* haven't found the answer *chuckles awkwardly* for yet, erm, 320 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,800 it's something we're still in discussions abut, erm, how we, how we might help 321 00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:49,200 podcasters support themselves, how we might help *stumbles on words* people 322 00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:54,600 support podcasters, err and musicians as well, this, this stretches to all areas, 323 00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:59,400 erm, but the answer is, is, is a difficult one. It's not one that sort of, 324 00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:06,700 erm, you know, comes very easily. Erm, now I've purposefully, sort of, left this 325 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,800 - I think I've got it exactly half an hour, that's good! *chuckles* - I 326 00:30:10,900 --> 00:30:15,200 purposely didn't want this to go on for too long, erm, it's, it- that's kind 327 00:30:15,300 --> 00:30:19,800 of the journey that we've had, erm, the first thing is: podcasting is fun! Err, 328 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:26,700 from a, sort of, user-perspective, podcasts are wonderful to listen to; erm, 329 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:32,700 having a good place to put podcasts is great for, erm, you know, people who make 330 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,900 them; from a software perspective, err, they're a bit of a nightmare, especially 331 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,300 when they aren't what your, erm, *chuckles* software was originally sort 332 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:45,400 of, erm, set up to do, err there's a lot of work goes into it, it's, erm, I think 333 00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:52,100 it's underestimated in general. Erm, but, you know, it's worth putting the effort 334 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:57,700 in to, to get something like that. Erm, free software world, the open source 335 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:03,300 software world, erm, we, we still face some significant challenges, erm, with 336 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,600 assisting people with things like, anything to, anything to do with finances 337 00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:12,600 is something where we struggle, and, erm, it's because we don't have that 338 00:31:12,700 --> 00:31:18,000 monolithic approach; it's because we don't have that, erm, central financing 339 00:31:18,100 --> 00:31:23,400 erm, so it tends to be that, you know, we need to focus more on improving, err, the 340 00:31:23,500 --> 00:31:28,100 experience of working within a, sort of, direct donation world and a direct, sort 341 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:36,000 of, erm, way of, of working. Erm, and, yeah, th- this, this, this whole sort of 342 00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:43,300 trend of existing podcasts being picked up by, erm, companies, and, you know, 343 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:49,900 things that used to be so free and easily accessible becoming walled-off inside (I 344 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,100 only know of Spotify doing it but I can imagine the same thing happening with 345 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:58,500 Apple Music and Deezer and a lot of others), erm, is kind of a concerning 346 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:05,900 move which is diluting what was really quite a fantastic, sort of, idea, and 347 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,900 it's a shame that it happens to some of the ones that people find, you know, 348 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,100 people connect with the most strongly; I think, erm, two of the most popular 349 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:18,100 podcasts that have been picked up are things like, erm, Joe Rogan, and The Last 350 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:23,400 Podcast on the Left, which is, it's a shame, erm, because high-profile things 351 00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:30,000 being taken over has meaning, and, erm, you know, it will normalise it in, if, in 352 00:32:30,100 --> 00:32:35,000 my eyes at least. But, with the use of free- free software tools, with the use 353 00:32:35,100 --> 00:32:40,600 of, you know, these open standards, real podcasting will never go away; it will 354 00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:44,800 always, you know, 'bubble up' underneath, we will always see people, erm, 355 00:32:44,900 --> 00:32:49,800 continuing to, you know, to put things out. So - yeah! It's, it's not all 356 00:32:49,900 --> 00:32:52,200 hopeless, this wasn't what that talk *chuckles* this talk was about; it was 357 00:32:52,300 --> 00:32:56,500 more that just about this is something I think is very important, and something 358 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:02,400 that, you know, as a project we're really striving to support. Erm, so, I think 359 00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:07,700 that takes me to- quite nicely 35 minutes was exactly what I was aiming for... If 360 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:17,600 anybody has any questions, erm, I think that the, erm, I think that the, err, I 361 00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:26,600 think that the number has been put into the chat; erm, it's +49-5361, err, 362 00:33:26,700 --> 00:33:35,500 890-286-8001, err, and if you're using event phone it's just 8001. Erm, I'll 363 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,600 just have a look and see if anyone asked any questions in here... Err, let's have 364 00:33:40,700 --> 00:33:49,400 a look... Yeah: "How do I find, how can I find a Funkwhale instance for a podcast 365 00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:53,500 I'm planning that suits me, my needs and my content the best?" Erm, yeah so the 366 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:58,100 link there is, is a good idea, the err, 'Get Started' guide, erm, we actually 367 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:04,700 have a, erm, a sort of a 'podpicker', we call it, erm, which is, just something 368 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,400 that sort of takes you through the summary of different pods, erm, which is 369 00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:12,600 what we ref- how we refer to servers, erm; people can write a summary of what 370 00:34:12,700 --> 00:34:19,900 sort of content they on there; erm, the two biggest servers, erm, are open.audio, 371 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:26,000 and err... ...I think Tanuki Tunes, which is my server, is quite, sort of, big and 372 00:34:26,100 --> 00:34:32,300 open; erm, there are lots of servers out there, so, you know, if you find one 373 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,900 where you think "it would fit in - here" *laughs* then great! Erm, you know, 374 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,500 usually just find one that has open registrations and, and sign up. Or, if 375 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,500 you're feeling brave, erm, install it for yourself; err it's, it's a fairly easy 376 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:51,300 install. There are some hosts that will host it for you, erm; they're listed on 377 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,100 the funkwhale.audio website, so if you just wanted somebody to set it up for 378 00:34:55,200 --> 00:35:02,200 you, so that you could host a podcast, erm, then yes, you could sort of, err put 379 00:35:02,300 --> 00:35:09,300 it in there. Err: "Do you know the podcastindex.org project?" Err, I don't, 380 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:14,800 personally, err I will look it up, after this; that looks interesting. Err, "If 381 00:35:14,900 --> 00:35:18,100 there's a solution to is to be found that could work for podcasters, could it also 382 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,300 be applicable to indie musicians? Or are the two fields, err, way too different in 383 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,800 order to accommodate both?" Err, I'll just finish this one; I think I've got a 384 00:35:26,900 --> 00:35:38,000 err, telephone person coming in... So, err if this p- I mean *sighs* yes and no; 385 00:35:38,100 --> 00:35:44,900 err if we're talking about supporting, erm, financially, then, yes, in theory we 386 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,500 already have some of those; I mean there are already donation platforms which kind 387 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:55,500 of work for a multitude of things, erm, so really I think we should be trying to, 388 00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:02,100 to sort of lean into things like Liberapay, Ko-fi, maybe Patreon, erm, 389 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:07,000 rather than, sort of, trying to solve that problem within the publication 390 00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:11,000 software. Because those features already exist, and because that's already quite, 391 00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:16,700 err, well-established, erm, having better interoperability between those tools, 392 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,600 erm, is probably the best way forward. You know, you just want to take the 393 00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:22,600 complexity away from the person listening. It'd be nice if they had 394 00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:25,500 something like, for example, you're listening to a song, you really like it, 395 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:32,400 so, maybe you pre-load a certain amount of, you know, credits to your account, 396 00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:35,100 and if every time you, sort of, play a song you really like you could throw some 397 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,700 credits their way. I don't know; the complexity of the actual *chuckles* 398 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,900 implementation is beyond me a little bit; as I say, I'm just a front-end guy, but 399 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,200 erm, I don't think there's that big a difference between them, err, from, from 400 00:36:47,300 --> 00:36:55,300 that sort of perspective. Erm... yeah. Err, the servers were, err so open.audio 401 00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:00,400 is the main, sort of flagship server, erm, and my server is called: 402 00:37:00,500 --> 00:37:07,300 tanukitunes.com; I'll put that link in. Erm, but there are lots of, there are 403 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:12,700 lots of servers; as I say, if you go to the actual, funkwhale.audio website, erm, 404 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:20,600 they're there. Erm, so "Why should I, as a podcaster, decide against a centralized 405 00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:23,500 platform with lots of users, for a decentralized one with only a few users? 406 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,200 How can we dramatically increase the visibility of my project, erm my product 407 00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:32,800 on Funkwhale?" Erm, it's a good question; I mean, the, the thing is with the 408 00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:39,000 centralized platform, erm, is, you may be on a platform with a lot of users, but 409 00:37:39,100 --> 00:37:44,600 that doesn't mean that you're actually going to be seen by a lot of users. Erm, 410 00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:50,900 there is a lot of stuff on Spotify which never gets played. Erm, that, that's just 411 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,200 *stutters* the fact of it; there are, there are so many... there's so much 412 00:37:55,300 --> 00:38:00,100 content on there, that, you are just, you know, *chuckles* you're just a grain of 413 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,400 sand; erm, obviously if you've got, err, err a sort of established fan-base, and 414 00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:07,100 you've got a lot of people already listening to you, then that doesn't 415 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,300 affect you, but, in that case, it also wouldn't affect you if you were 416 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,100 decentralized. Those same people would still be listening, and in fact you would 417 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:20,100 be able to reach more people; erm, podcasts, kind of, allow for 418 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,600 word-of-mouth in a way that something centralized doesn't. It can be passed 419 00:38:24,700 --> 00:38:30,100 around a lot more, err, sort of, virally. Erm, as for, you know, Funkwhale, I mean, 420 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:35,400 Funkwhale's greatest strength is the Fediverse, erm, with this. Err, so, the 421 00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:39,900 fact that the audio can be shared between peoples' servers, and sort of streamed 422 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,000 directly from server to server, the fact that it can be followed on a multitude of 423 00:38:43,100 --> 00:38:47,600 different, err, platforms, is where the visibility would come from; it's that 424 00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:52,000 sort of viral sharing. But the fact that it also works outside of Funkwhale, it 425 00:38:52,100 --> 00:38:57,300 also works, err, just using a traditional sort of podcatcher, also plays into its 426 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:02,500 favour, and that's where Spotify kind of falls apart. Erm, yes, Spotify has a lot 427 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:07,300 of users, but erm, you do kind of cut off an entire core audience, which is the 428 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:14,300 concern. Erm... yeah. It, it's, it's not the, there's no simple answer *chuckles* 429 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,900 to this is, is kind of the way it goes, but erm, I feel like, erm, the point made 430 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,100 earlier in the, in the chat, which was that, if you centralize it and you lock 431 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,500 it behind a walled garden it's no longer really a podcast; it kind, that kind of 432 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,800 stands; it's not a podcast, technically, any more. It's something different, and 433 00:39:31,900 --> 00:39:36,200 that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is true; it's no longer what it is was 434 00:39:36,300 --> 00:39:43,600 originally supposed to be. Erm, so, you know, it, it, it is best, I think, to try 435 00:39:43,700 --> 00:39:47,700 and make use of, err, of, you know, tools that fit into the existing podcast 436 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:59,300 infrastructure. OK: that looks like all of the questions; I don't think anybody's 437 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:07,200 calling in, which is fine... So, with that being the case, if there's no more 438 00:40:07,300 --> 00:40:12,000 questions, erm, thank you very much for listening to me ramble about, erm, 439 00:40:12,100 --> 00:40:18,900 *laughs* podcast, err, for forty minutes! Erm, obviously, if, if you'd like to 440 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:25,400 check the project out, it's just at, at funkwhale.audio. Erm, but also, go out 441 00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:28,800 and support your favourite podcasters, whatever platform they're on. Erm, you 442 00:40:29,100 --> 00:40:34,400 know, god knows they'd appreciate it *laughs* Especially in these times. Err, 443 00:40:34,500 --> 00:40:41,000 thank you very much, erm, I think, that's where I'm gonna' call it quits! 444 00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:51,000 Herald: I think we have a phone call. Ciarán Ainsworth: OK. 445 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,700 Herald: Someone on the phone? Question: Ah, yeah? 446 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,000 Ciarán: Hello? Q: Hi. 447 00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:03,100 Ciarán: Hello! 448 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:11,600 *phone line hisses* I just wondered whether you're familiar with a website 449 00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:16,300 called forgotify.com. You brought up earlier that there's, like, tons of audio 450 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,100 that has never been heard of, and that's basically sites, so it's like a song, or 451 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,100 a piece of material on Spotify that has never been heard of before. 452 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,900 Ciarán: Hmm. What was the name of the site again, sorry? 453 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:33,600 Q: Err, forgotify.com Ciarán: Oh, no, I've not heard of that! 454 00:41:33,700 --> 00:41:37,800 That's quite interesting. So is it, it- it just plays stuff that doesn't get 455 00:41:37,900 --> 00:41:41,100 played much on Spotify? Q: Yeah, you just click, click on a 456 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:47,400 button and it literally shows you, like, a random song, or another piece of audio 457 00:41:47,500 --> 00:41:52,000 that has been, like, distributing on Spotify but never heard before. I even 458 00:41:52,100 --> 00:41:55,500 found some tracks from 2008/2009, I'm not sure. 459 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,100 Ciarán: That's... great! *laughs* I really like, I really like that idea. 460 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:04,200 Yeah, I, that, that is a, a genuine concern; I, I, when I was, erm, I used to 461 00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:08,600 use Google+ a lot, because I'm that kind of person, and I was part of, erm, sort 462 00:42:08,700 --> 00:42:12,900 of 'publishing muscians', err, club, and I had people on there who published on 463 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,800 Spotify and they never got listened to. You know, it does take quite a lot for 464 00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:20,900 you to, to actually get picked up Spotify's algorithms and to be, sort of, 465 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:26,000 err, prioritised. So, I- it's not the best solution for podcasters; I think 466 00:42:26,100 --> 00:42:29,100 there's a reason that only already-popular podcasts are getting 467 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,800 picked up for Spotify circulation. But, you know, that, that sort of project 468 00:42:32,900 --> 00:42:35,800 sounds really interesting, because it'd be fascinating to see what gets forgotten 469 00:42:35,900 --> 00:42:39,000 down the sort of 'cracks of the seat', *chuckles* so to speak! 470 00:42:39,100 --> 00:42:43,400 Q: Yeah. It's also exhausting to play the game of the admin work and stuff; I think 471 00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:48,000 that's, like, one of the main reasons why I'm not making music myself. Things sound 472 00:42:48,100 --> 00:42:52,500 *phone line cuts out*, personally. So that's why *phone line cuts out*. 473 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:58,600 Ciarán: Yeah. Yeah, it is, it is. Q: Anyways, thanks a lot; I'm not, I'm 474 00:42:58,700 --> 00:43:02,700 not affiliated with the site. I just like, found it very random and decided to 475 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,200 share that. Thanks. Ciarán: No, thank you very much, 476 00:43:05,300 --> 00:43:08,600 that's really interesting. Q: See you around! 477 00:43:08,700 --> 00:43:10,000 Ciarán: Thank you; bye! 478 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:20,500 OK, if, err, we don't have any more calls... Going once, going twice! 479 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:28,000 Ciarán: *chuckles* OK! Herald: No more calls. 480 00:43:28,100 --> 00:43:31,900 Ciarán: OK, thank you again for, for coming to, to watch, and I hope you 481 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,300 have, err, a great rest of your conference, err, looks like it's 482 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:36,600 going to be a lot of fun. 483 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:42,900 *postroll music* 484 00:43:43,000 --> 00:44:16,000 *postroll music* Captions by Sebastian 'seabass' Crane